2

Should this question be reopened?

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/128502/where-do-dementors-come-from

It was closed by two users (Jason Baker and Slytherincess) as a duplicate of Did Ekrizdis create the Dementors?, but at least one user (hedgehog, the OP) contends that the answers to the existing question don't answer the new one and therefore it is not a duplicate. (For full information, another question mentioned in comments as a possible duplicate was How are Dementors created/born?)

Since the question is currently locked due to other issues, no non-moderator can vote to reopen it. You'll be able to VTRO when it's unlocked, if appropriate, but I'd like to get a sense of the community's opinion now since it might impact on the discussion here.

Is this question really a duplicate, or should it be reopened?

  • were do they comefrom, and how are they born seem the same to me? id vote to close it again – Himarm May 20 '16 at 17:36
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    Please consider the body of the question as well as its title when making your decision. Also, don't pay too much attention to its negative score; I suspect most of those downvotes are due to the OP's attitude rather than the quality of the post. – Rand al'Thor May 20 '16 at 17:37
  • (Btw @Himarm, the above comment isn't directed at you - just a general note. You were quick enough to get in before I finished typing it :-) ) – Rand al'Thor May 20 '16 at 17:38
  • @Himarm - "seem" because you didn't peruse the contents of the question or its answers, as Rand said. I expanded in my answer. – DVK-on-Ahch-To May 20 '16 at 20:42
  • About tags: I think this post is an argument for renaming vote-to-reopen to reopening-questions. This post seems more like a question about reopening rather than an informal vote to reopen. – Molag Bal May 20 '16 at 21:38
  • @anaranjada Sure, you might be right. Remind me another day though - I've got more to worry about than meta tags just now. – Rand al'Thor May 20 '16 at 21:55
  • [tag:tag-pedantry] :) – DVK-on-Ahch-To May 20 '16 at 22:45
0

Absolutely should be reopened (and if the question wasn't locked, I would have now undupe-hammered it and fixed it up).

It should be reopened, albiet refocused on what is now question #4 in a list of 4.

  • It is NOT a duplicate of " Did Ekrizdis create the Dementors? ".

    The question itself only asks about ONE plausible theory of Dementor origins, and the answers don't conclusively and exaustively cover ALL plausible theories. As such, that question's answers do not adequately address the question under consideration.

    Yes, it is possible that someone might post an exaustive answer to Ekrizids Q, which would answer "Did Ekrizids" with "This is the definitive origin, and it is NOT Ekrizids", and such an answer would then address Hedgehog's question. But such an answer is NOT posted there now.

  • It is NOT a duplicate of " How are Dementors created/born? "

    That question's title may mislead one at first glance, but it is about creation of an individual dementor being, NOT about creation/origin of Dementors as a species, and as such its answers also in no way address the question under consideration.

Having said that, SQB's answer makes a valid point, and 3 sub-questions out of 4 can and likely should be deleted, leaving only "What is their story, did they get created by someone or just started existing similar as to giants?". The other 3 can then be reposted as separate questions, but at least some of them are indeed dupes (such as #1)

  • What about sqb's point that its still 4 questions? – Himarm May 20 '16 at 20:44
  • @Himarm - Quite trivial to edit out 3 extraneous ones :). Rand was specifically asking about delicateness, so I chose to address that as the actually important and hard to fix issue. – DVK-on-Ahch-To May 20 '16 at 20:47
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    The fact that the dupe doesn't exhaustively deal with every theory seems an excellent cause to open that question up for more answers (perhaps by levying a bounty?) but it's not cause for opening this one back up, even ignoring the fact that it's not sensibly scoped. – Valorum May 20 '16 at 20:50
  • @Himarm - updated my answer to address your point specifically – DVK-on-Ahch-To May 20 '16 at 20:51
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    @Valorum - the fact that the alleged dupe - as a QUESTION - wasn't centered on, and wasn't trying to, get the exaustive answer - means that it shouldn't be turned into a question it was never attempting to be. It was a great question with good answers. It just wasn't the question that this user was trying to ask. – DVK-on-Ahch-To May 20 '16 at 20:53
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    @DVK-in-exile - I can see your point, I just don't agree with it. Both dupey questions deal with pretty much all we know about the genesis of these creatures. A question which asks much the same again will get much the same answer from much the same sources. I've gotta fall with Slytherincess on this one. – Valorum May 20 '16 at 20:54
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    @Valorum - as a matter of fact, if you WANT them to be dupes with exaustive answer, the newer question should be chosen as the one to stay open, as it is more generic; and the exaustive answer should be posted to it – DVK-on-Ahch-To May 20 '16 at 20:55
  • @anaranjada - "Vote for the post, not the user". I don't care one whit what user's behavior was or is; I only care what the merits of the post are (I'll leave aside that I chose to leave the site in small part because of abuse of people like OP and subsequent piling onto them). – DVK-on-Ahch-To May 20 '16 at 20:56
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    @DVK-in-exile - There's certain an argument for merging the two questions but it's hard to see how you'd manage it without the consent of the OP. I'd vote for it though. – Valorum May 20 '16 at 20:57
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    I'd say the least dupey of the four questions is the gender one; the other three all seem to be covered by one of the two older questions. – Rand al'Thor May 21 '16 at 0:52
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    @dvk-in-exile if we run "exhaustive" answers beyond what we know from canon and WoG doesn't turn either the question or answer into a POB and thus be off-topic? I only say this because I feel the two questions already cover all we know based on canon. – Skooba May 21 '16 at 1:16
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    @Valorum but it wasnt asked man, the only thing that was asked, was if a specific person created them, and the answer was specific on if that guy made them, no mention of who actually or how they did get created... even so, i understand that gold badge users have these badges for a specific reason, which i respec, but still you have to admit that it cannot be that they are always correct, after all we are all humans and we make mistakes, point is after we do them, to understand them. :) – Sir. Hedgehog May 21 '16 at 15:13
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    @Valorum so you are looking for the simpler solution for you? hmmmm i think you should be looking for the best solution not the easiest.... – Sir. Hedgehog May 22 '16 at 8:55
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    @hedgehog - As I said to DVK, I can get behind merging them, but I'm loathe to allow the creation of a dupe (with the consequence that the older question could get closed as a dupe of your question) simply because the new question is 'wider'. The mob have spoken and seem in favour of leaving it closed; +5 "because it is a dupe" and +2 "because it's poorly scoped" vs. 0 points for "it's not a dupe". If you think there's canon that we're missing, sling a bounty on the original question. – Valorum May 22 '16 at 9:10
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    I agree that this wasn't handled well. By the same token, your own conduct was really quite odd and certainly didn't help matters – Valorum May 23 '16 at 12:53
5

Leave Closed as Duplicate

If the question was not a duplicate of

Did Ekrizdis create the Dementors?

It is surely a duplicate of

How are Dementors created/born?

A common thought, although not 100% enforced rule is that an answer can make a question a duplicate. Based on the answers given in the older questions, any answers given to the new question will be the same.


From a different point on view... being the OP for the first linked question, I had to carefully select and word the question I was asking because it too was almost closed as a duplicate of the second question.

Additionally, while no user is all-powerful or all-knowing Richard (Valorum) and Slytherincess are gold-badge holders and therefore would be considered the cream of the crop experts in that field (at least by SE standards). Their knowledge of the subject should lend some credence and weight to the close votes.

  • 1
    Agreed. It's a dupe. As a gold tag badge holder in that topic, if I saw it in the queue or on the front page I'd have no hesitation in immediately closing it as such. – Valorum May 20 '16 at 17:38
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    Who's this Richard? – Valorum May 20 '16 at 17:43
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    @Valorum I have your new name in the parentheses... You can't hide with 185k rep by just changing your name! – Skooba May 20 '16 at 17:44
  • @Valorum You can't play that game. You are neither Dana, nor Zuul. – T.J.L. May 20 '16 at 17:51
  • I'm also quite offended at being referred to as "not all knowing". – Valorum May 20 '16 at 18:11
  • @Valorum I will never forgive you by being 5 seconds quicker to an answer that one time.... – Skooba May 20 '16 at 18:14
  • @Skooba - There's no point being a day late and a dollar short, as my dear old granny used to say. – Valorum May 20 '16 at 18:18
  • @Valorum - read my answer please. I actually read and analyzed the contents of the questions (unlike - it seems - this post's author) and the second link is not in any way, shape or form even smells of a duplicate (and the first link isn't really a duplicate either, though it at least has valid arguments for it) – DVK-on-Ahch-To May 20 '16 at 20:44
  • @Skooba Does this answer take into consideration all four questions in the original post? – Rand al'Thor May 20 '16 at 22:22
  • @Rand al'thor I would say it covers all the questions directly or indirectly based on the information we have from canon and WoG. Anything beyond that would be POB/speculation – Skooba May 21 '16 at 1:18
2

No

Not because it may or may not be a duplicate, but because it's asking at least 4 questions at once:

  1. Where do Dementors come from?

Also, unexplainable is:

  1. Do they have a gender? (male/female)

  2. (...) how do they actually reproduce?

  3. What is their story, did they get created by someone or just started existing similar as to giants?

  • So we should re-open it so that we can reclose it for the correct reason? – Valorum May 20 '16 at 17:39
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    @Valorum basically its an all around disaster! – Himarm May 20 '16 at 17:42
  • @Himarm - Agreed. Also at least two of those supplementary questions are also dupes, one answered by the question it's been marked as a dupe of and the other a dupe of another question. – Valorum May 20 '16 at 17:42
  • What about if questions 1 and 4 (and possibly 3) were removed, to make the question less broad? – Rand al'Thor May 20 '16 at 17:45
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    Are any of those questions not dupes? Could the question be edited to limit it to one question that has not been previously asked? – Molag Bal May 20 '16 at 17:46
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    The only question not a direct dupe is "do they have a gender" – Skooba May 20 '16 at 17:47
  • @anaranjada - We could, but that would conflict with what the OP was asking in the first place. – Valorum May 20 '16 at 18:11
  • Then SQB should someone ask me to revise and edit the post Q??? Instead of marking instantly as a duplicate? – Sir. Hedgehog May 21 '16 at 11:21
  • @hedgehog Yes, but 3 out of 4 questions you asked were duplicates. I think your best option is asking about the gender of dementors in a new question and let this one be. Duplicates aren't a bad thing, because they're other entry points for people looking for an answer. – SQB May 21 '16 at 11:24
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    @hedgehog Yes, someone should probably have left a comment asking you to revise and edit the question. I'm hoping that when it's unlocked, you (or someone else) will do exactly that, and then perhaps it can be reopened. – Rand al'Thor May 21 '16 at 12:10
  • @hedgehog keep in mind that being closed as a duplicate isn't punishment or a condemnation. It's just a marker that it has been asked before and we should continue from there, to avoid repeating ourselves. – SQB May 21 '16 at 12:22
  • @Randal'Thor excuse me both of you, but in my opinion prevention is better than the cure, really though, there should be a guideline, on when and under which conditions someone can mark a question as a duplicate (e.g. providing exact and plenty of evidence, not just a link saying its a dupe of that).... because dont forget, someone is NOT guilty until its proved otherwise... – Sir. Hedgehog May 21 '16 at 12:37
  • @hedgehog Asking a duplicate question isn't a crime; "guilty" is far too strong a word to use. You might be right that some people close as duplicate too easily, but that's what reopen votes are for! Let's be patient; I'm sure we can sort this out :-) By the way, you might be interested to see the revision history of this post, which was closed as duplicate and then reopened when the OP edited his question after getting feedback in comments. That's the system working as it should. – Rand al'Thor May 21 '16 at 12:48
  • @Randal'Thor i know that normally this is the case, but man why it cant be that someone can kindly ask to refrain the question, or else it should be marked as duplicate, because if someone spends time to look around if the actual question exists and then make the question and someone closes it as duplicate his action can be interpreted as saying that the other didnt good enough search before posting, and in the intellectual world this could be a kind of offensive. I hope you get what i mean.btw my example, was like what happens in the court, you are not guilty until you are proven to be. – Sir. Hedgehog May 21 '16 at 15:08

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