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I posted a comment on an answer to this question :

Are there any orc names mentioned in LOTR movie trilogy?

The answerer claims to have read through 5 full LOTR film scripts in an attempt to answer the question. The time between the question and answer was 3 hours.

In my comment I said I didn't believe someone could have done so much research, covering such a large amount of material in such a short amount of time.

My comment was deleted.

Is it completely against the rules to question or critique an answer you believe to be false / incorrect?

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  • Comments are not meant to be permanent. They can be deleted by moderators for any reason whatsoever, including for no reason whatsoever.
    – Valorum
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 20:30
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    @Richard including for no reason whatsoever... well that sounds very fair.
    – Ingu Shama
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 20:38
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    And perhaps you shouldn't disparage anyone's ability to parse information without knowing anything about their time, their ability, their software or their learning techniques. People are varied and amazing and often able to do fantastic things that defy expectations. I didn't delete comment, but I could see how it might have been potentially hurtful. Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 20:40
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    @InguShama Be careful who's questions / answers you post comments on. Anything other than this is an incredible answer can and will be flagged or deleted. Most people are usually pretty open to something they post being challenged or critiqued, but some aren't. Which isn't against the rules at all but, I feel at least, that it's against the spirit of the site.
    – Daft
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 20:49
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    @Daft - I'd probably delete that as "non-constructive".
    – Valorum
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 20:55
  • @Daft ok, I guess that makes sense.
    – Ingu Shama
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 20:55
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    @Richard you almost sound like a bully, throwing your weight around issuing threats.
    – Ingu Shama
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 21:09
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    @InguShama - I'm sorry you feel that way. I've offered my justification below. You'll note that I also removed comments that were complimentary to me as well.
    – Valorum
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 21:14
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    I would also have been more than happy to explain my searching technique had you asked that question...
    – Valorum
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 21:23
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    @Daft or, alternatively, you could try "be careful posting non-helpful and borderline-insulting comments on any post regardless of who made it"; or, how about "be aware that comments get deleted all the time because that's how Stack Exchange works." But no, always go with the conspiracy theory, you're definitely right.
    – KutuluMike
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 22:19

2 Answers 2

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I purged the comment stream because I didn't feel that the comments contributed anything constructive in improving the answer. Bluntly, if you want to chat about an answer we have a chatroom precisely for that reason.

As far as the comment(s) themselves were concerned, I toyed briefly with flagging the one below for another moderator to deal with (as "Rude or offensive"), then decided the easiest thing to do would be to delete all of them, excluding the two that weren't prompted by your original comment:

-1 You literally read all 3 film scripts as well as the special editions? That would take hours. 45minutes+ per script? This question is 3 hours old. That's not possible. I'm sorry but I don't believe you.


And if may quote from the comment privileges page

When shouldn't I comment?

Criticisms which do not add anything constructive ("-1, see previous comments you scallywag!"); instead, down-vote (and provide or up-vote a better answer if appropriate);

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    You almost flagged I'm sorry but I don't believe you. as "Rude or offensive".
    – Ingu Shama
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 20:47
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    @InguShama - Yes. Calling someone a liar is both rude and offensive.
    – Valorum
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 20:50
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    @InguShama The exact wording wasn't inherently rude, but the overall tone of the comments was essentially an accusation that Richard was fabricating his answer, which is rude imo. Either way, it was strong enough that people who knew he didn't fabricate it felt the need to defend him, which created a big mess of distracting comments. If it the tone was closer to "How did you do that?" we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
    – Ixrec
    Commented Jul 12, 2015 at 20:50
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    @InguShama - Having been a part of the comment thread, I can tell you that your comment was rude, albeit mildly so. You were essentially calling another user a liar. Furthermore, you had no grounds for saying so, since the user in question is famous for his knowledge of scripts and novelizations. It's his specialty, so to speak. It wasn't the words you used that were a problem, it was the intent behind them: to attack the credibility of a user. That is rude and inappropriate.
    – Wad Cheber
    Commented Jul 13, 2015 at 1:00
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    @InguShama - I'm not a mod, and you didn't say anything about me, but I was pretty close to flagging the comment as rude and offensive myself. In hindsight, I wish I had.
    – Wad Cheber
    Commented Jul 13, 2015 at 1:34
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    As I mentioned in my comment to @WadCheber, I think the OP was stating his belief: He didn't believe that Richard could have possibly plowed through so much material in three hours. The moment that comment was made, this should have gone to another mod for further action. Richard was wrong for handling it himself; it screams of bias, and now it's turned into what looks like Richard's personal cadre coming to his defense, etc, etc. I really don't think this is the case, but it just looks terrible. Another mod should have handled this. Period. This truly upsets me. Transparency, please. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 22:19
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    @Slytherincess - As I said in a comment over on chat, I could have flagged it as rude if I'd wanted to, but the reality is that it was just a comment, not an answer or a question. They're intended to be impermanent and moderators are perfectly well within their bounds to delete them for any reason and none if they don't improve the quality of the question.
    – Valorum
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 5:43
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    @Slytherincess - Note that it wasn't deleted because it was rude, it was deleted because it (along with the responses it then spawned) served no useful purpose.
    – Valorum
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 5:44
  • @Slytherincess - I do sometimes defend Richard, but only because he was incredibly helpful and patient with me during my first few days and weeks on the site. But this is not one of those occasions. I'm not defending anyone, because no one needs to be defended. A user indirectly called another user a liar. That is a violation of site policy, and it generated an enormous amount of chatter. I poked holes in Ingu's comment in the thread, and Richard deleted that as well. He was even handed.
    – Wad Cheber
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 7:27
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Your question isn't really accurate. You asked if any Orcs are mentioned by name in the LotR movies. It is entirely possible to answer this question without having to read every word of 5 scripts. I briefly explained this in the comments, but I will repeat the explanation here:

The other characters- the humans, hobbits, dwarves, elves, ents, and wizards - have no way of knowing the names of any Orcs. This makes all the lines spoken by such characters irrelevant. The only characters who might refer to Orcs by name are other Orcs. Therefore, the only parts of the scripts that might contain the necessary information are the scenes in which Orcs are speaking to each other.

There are very few scenes like this. In fact, there are very few scenes in which Orcs speak at all. I have seen each of the three movies at least a dozen times. Off the top of my head, I can only think of about three scenes in which Orcs speak to one another. Even in those scenes, the dialogue is mostly limited to things like "Get a move on, maggots!", and "The scum tried to knife me!", and "Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!" You'll notice that in none of these cases do we hear any names being mentioned, unless someone is named "Maggot" or "The Scum" or "Boys".

Thus, by simple deduction, we have already eliminated all but a few pages of the 5 scripts. Your argument now boils down to "I don't believe that anyone could read 5 pages in 3 hours", which doesn't make sense.

Having also read the books, I can remember only a few Orc names: Shagrat, Gorbag, Ugluk, and Grisnakh. There are probably a couple of names I'm forgetting, but not many. The Orcs in Tolkien's work are foils, nameless baddies who serve little purpose aside from giving the good guys someone to kill. There are hundreds of thousands of Orcs, and all of them are exactly the same. Why bother trying to distinguish between them all? There is only one Balrog in the movies, and we don't know its name either.

The problem with your comments was that you disrespected a fellow user for no apparent reason, and you questioned that user's ability to do something that isn't even difficult to do- read a handful of pages of a few scripts. It isn't about misuse of authority, bullying, throwing weight around, or whatever else you want to call it. It is about simple common courtesy. You basically called someone a liar. Unless you don't mind being called a liar, I think you will agree that "You're lying" is a pretty offensive thing to say. Were those your exact words? No, but the intent is the same. "I don't believe you" is synonymous with "You're a liar".

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    Downvote questions you think are poor or inaccurate -- this is what the voting system is for. As to what the OP said to @Richard, it could have been worded a bit more softly, but he was merely expressing his opinion: He didn't believe that Richard could plow through that much material in three hours. While it seems Richard has a special affinity for Q&A, I don't find it surprising that someone called him out on it. I'm surprised that he's surprised! Again, I'm not stating the OP was correct in doing so, but he stated a belief. IMO, the OP did not engage in a personal attack. Just my $0.02. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 22:02

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