Does "Elephant Vs Terminator" = "Gorilla Vs Shark"?

Question

This question : Is an elephant stronger than a terminator? instantly attracted 5 votes to close for being 'primarily opinion-based'.

Several of the commenters made reference to the classic 'Gorilla Vs Shark' debate, where a question fails to:

involve facts, references, or specific expertise

and where the question will

likely solicit opinion, debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion.

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I'm at a loss why a question that can be answered reasonably and objectively using canon sources (e.g. yes, a terminator is stronger than an elephant because it can lift more / No, a terminator isn't stronger than an elephant because it can lift less) would attract such negative attention.

So, as the question title says; Does "Elephant Vs Terminator" = "Gorilla Vs Shark"?

Answer 1

It is Gorilla vs Shark because it's too broadly scoped, which is one of the items touched on in the original blog post.

If we examine the original question again:

Would a T-800 or T-1000 be able to carry or pull more weight than an adult elephant?

Some of the things that are wrong with this question include:

• An elephant has greater surface area than a Terminator. Greater surface area can support more weight. But all of the weight can be focused in a single point which renders that irrelevant. Which case is being asked about here? We don't know.

• An elephant pulls with its trunk, a Terminator may pull with its hands, its teeth or other parts of its anatomy. Either may pull a weight via ropes wrapped around its body.

• A Terminator has greater manual dexterity which would enable it to manipulate objects into better positions for carrying or pulling that an Elephant may not be able to.

• An elephant has all four feet on the ground which may give it better leverage than a Terminator in certain circumstances.

This clearly falls under "What, specifically, is wrong with asking Gorilla vs. Shark?" reason 2:

Without any kind of scope, every answer can make any assumptions they like — and there will assuredly be hundreds, all different.

And the hypothetical "Google+ vs Facebook" scenario:

But it still utterly fails to set any scope or terms, and is thus virtually impossible to reasonably answer.

Reading similar questions, and the debates attached to them, that have previously appeared on this site, I get the feeling that a common interpretation of "Gorilla vs Shark" is something along the lines of:

Who is more evil: Judge Death or the Witch-king of Angmar?

That is definite "Gorilla vs Shark" but what the blog post should make clear is that the definition is both broader and more subtle than that. In particular the four hypothetical scenarios that close the blog post are a more useful guideline, and those scenarios should be making it clear to us all that "Gorilla vs Shark" is not a problem of subjectivity vs objectivity; it's a problem of scope.

To reword these scenarios in terms of this question:

• Scenario #1: Is a Terminator stronger than an elephant?
• Scenario #2: What is it about Terminators that make them stronger than elephants?
• Scenario #3: What is the single aspect of elephants most responsible for their superior strength to Terminators?
• Scenario #4: Are Terminators better at pulling trucks with their hands than elephants are with their trunks?

The question as it stands has the following features:

• It falls under scenario #1 (I'd hope that's obvious), and:
• It can't be edited to improve without changing the asker's intent.

Whether or not it's Primarily Opinion-Based is completely irrelevant here (on reflection I'd close as "unclear" or "too broad"). As Richard's answer shows, it's actually not POB given the right circumstances, but that's the problem: Richards answer is one of those answers that "can make any assumptions they like", one of the "hundreds, all different".

Answer 2

No, the question is wholly objective and should never have been closed. It's perfectly possible to determine what the maximum strength of an adult elephant is and then compare that to "in-canon" images of the Terminator performing acts of super-strength in the films, comics etc.

As evidenced by my own answer on the subject, there's more than enough information available (on both elephants and terminators) to craft a good answer.

I suspect that had the OP asked "Can a Terminator lift a tonne?" we wouldn't have needed to discuss this at all.

Answer 3

Yes, it's gorilla vs. shark.

There are 4 points in the blog post:

1. Nobody needs to know the answer to this question.

Estimating the carrying capacity of a terminator might be interesting or relevant. Comparing the carrying capacity of a terminator to a random animal or machine seems pointless to me. Can a terminator squeeze harder than a python? Can a terminator jump farther than a kangaroo? Can a terminator pull a fully-loaded freight train?

2. It’s not nearly specific enough.

As Slytheriness points out, which elephants are we comparing to? There might not be hundreds of variations as there would be in the "who would win a fight...," but what about a bull elephant in must? What about African swallows^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Helephants vs. European (or wherever else there are elephants)?

3. It is difficult to learn from these questions.

In this case, I think the same argument as for point #1 applies and it basically amounts to: Who cares how the strength or carrying capacity of a terminator compares to the average strength of some animal? If there is any value in the comparison, shouldn't it be to the maximum strength? Is anyone really planning on using terminators as pack animals so they might need to estimate how many terminators they need to use for their jungle expedition?

4. It drives away experts.

I'm not sure this one applies as much to a entertainment SE site.

Answer 4

Yes, it is Shark versus Gorilla.

Not all adult elephants possess exactly the same strength capabilities. Did the question ask for the strength of an "average" elephant, or did it just say an adult elephant or just an elephant? Regardless, it is my understanding that any question that asks "Is Character X (somehow better than) Character Y (at some certain thing)?" is going to fall into Shark versus Gorilla territory.