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  • The user created a plausibly valid tag (on another user's question).

    • By that time it was clear from all the released material that Kylo Ren is a major character. I shall avoid posting 3-page-long bullet list of why, to avoid spoiling people.

    • While there may be valid arguments made on the side of the tag not being valid[3], there are very valid arguments on the side of it being valid, and therefore NOT unanimously and unchallengingly worth-deleting without debate and discussion. This Q&A is not the correct place to settle that argument, but what's important to what happened is the fact that it's a meaningful disagreement on merits, not a unanimous and obvious "junk" tag conclusion.

  • The tag was challenged without knowing this fact, and without checking this fact (e.g. on main site or Meta), and deleted by a moderator without seeking the site consensus on Meta, as is appropriate for tag deletion

    • As per the challenger, the basis of the challenge was 2-fold: (#1) he considered the tag invalid (as per above, I greatly disagree with him on merits of that judgement call, but it's his right to make that judgement call); and (#2) considered it inapplicable to THAT specific question (another judgement call, that I am ambivalent about, I can see valid reasoning to either support or oppose that call on merits, and think it was far more correct than #1).

    • As per comments from moderator, the FORMER basis of the challenge (validity of the tag itself) was the basis for fulfilling the flag. As such, I believe it necessitated a Meta discussion prior to deletion and should have been rejected until such Meta discussion was resolved. (For hypothetical completeness - I may have arrived at the opposite conclusion regarding moderator's action if the reason for the deletion was the second basis of the flag - question content, including tags, is definitely within moderator purview and ordinarily wouldn't need to be Meta-discussed. I may have disagreed with moderator's judgement but NOT his procedure then.)

  • Regardless of the intentions of the action, the practical - if unintended - effect of this action was that the user was deprived of an official, SE-promoted, activity (creating new good tag) - and as a consequence of that:

    • ##user lost a chance to earn a rare badge awarded for creating a tag that is used by 50+ questions[1]

      user lost a chance to earn a rare badge awarded for creating a tag that is used by 50+ questions[1]

  • This was compounded when - according to the OP, his OTHER 2 tries to create the tag were also rejected. I do not possess the knowledge of how to dig through the data to verify that, or to see the circumstances, except that I know that OTHER people were involved than the user who challenged the tag's first instance - so this is a pattern of events that transcends a single user's one judgement call.

  • Then, to add insult to injury, someone else created that tag and will get the badge that the OP was deprived of.

  • The user created a plausibly valid tag (on another user's question).

    • By that time it was clear from all the released material that Kylo Ren is a major character. I shall avoid posting 3-page-long bullet list of why, to avoid spoiling people.

    • While there may be valid arguments made on the side of the tag not being valid[3], there are very valid arguments on the side of it being valid, and therefore NOT unanimously and unchallengingly worth-deleting without debate and discussion. This Q&A is not the correct place to settle that argument, but what's important to what happened is the fact that it's a meaningful disagreement on merits, not a unanimous and obvious "junk" tag conclusion.

  • The tag was challenged without knowing this fact, and without checking this fact (e.g. on main site or Meta), and deleted by a moderator without seeking the site consensus on Meta, as is appropriate for tag deletion

    • As per the challenger, the basis of the challenge was 2-fold: (#1) he considered the tag invalid (as per above, I greatly disagree with him on merits of that judgement call, but it's his right to make that judgement call); and (#2) considered it inapplicable to THAT specific question (another judgement call, that I am ambivalent about, I can see valid reasoning to either support or oppose that call on merits, and think it was far more correct than #1).

    • As per comments from moderator, the FORMER basis of the challenge (validity of the tag itself) was the basis for fulfilling the flag. As such, I believe it necessitated a Meta discussion prior to deletion and should have been rejected until such Meta discussion was resolved. (For hypothetical completeness - I may have arrived at the opposite conclusion regarding moderator's action if the reason for the deletion was the second basis of the flag - question content, including tags, is definitely within moderator purview and ordinarily wouldn't need to be Meta-discussed. I may have disagreed with moderator's judgement but NOT his procedure then.)

  • Regardless of the intentions of the action, the practical - if unintended - effect of this action was that the user was deprived of an official, SE-promoted, activity (creating new good tag) - and as a consequence of that:

    • ##user lost a chance to earn a rare badge awarded for creating a tag that is used by 50+ questions[1]
  • This was compounded when - according to the OP, his OTHER 2 tries to create the tag were also rejected. I do not possess the knowledge of how to dig through the data to verify that, or to see the circumstances, except that I know that OTHER people were involved than the user who challenged the tag's first instance - so this is a pattern of events that transcends a single user's one judgement call.

  • Then, to add insult to injury, someone else created that tag and will get the badge that the OP was deprived of.

  • The user created a plausibly valid tag (on another user's question).

    • By that time it was clear from all the released material that Kylo Ren is a major character. I shall avoid posting 3-page-long bullet list of why, to avoid spoiling people.

    • While there may be valid arguments made on the side of the tag not being valid[3], there are very valid arguments on the side of it being valid, and therefore NOT unanimously and unchallengingly worth-deleting without debate and discussion. This Q&A is not the correct place to settle that argument, but what's important to what happened is the fact that it's a meaningful disagreement on merits, not a unanimous and obvious "junk" tag conclusion.

  • The tag was challenged without knowing this fact, and without checking this fact (e.g. on main site or Meta), and deleted by a moderator without seeking the site consensus on Meta, as is appropriate for tag deletion

    • As per the challenger, the basis of the challenge was 2-fold: (#1) he considered the tag invalid (as per above, I greatly disagree with him on merits of that judgement call, but it's his right to make that judgement call); and (#2) considered it inapplicable to THAT specific question (another judgement call, that I am ambivalent about, I can see valid reasoning to either support or oppose that call on merits, and think it was far more correct than #1).

    • As per comments from moderator, the FORMER basis of the challenge (validity of the tag itself) was the basis for fulfilling the flag. As such, I believe it necessitated a Meta discussion prior to deletion and should have been rejected until such Meta discussion was resolved. (For hypothetical completeness - I may have arrived at the opposite conclusion regarding moderator's action if the reason for the deletion was the second basis of the flag - question content, including tags, is definitely within moderator purview and ordinarily wouldn't need to be Meta-discussed. I may have disagreed with moderator's judgement but NOT his procedure then.)

  • Regardless of the intentions of the action, the practical - if unintended - effect of this action was that the user was deprived of an official, SE-promoted, activity (creating new good tag) - and as a consequence of that:

    • user lost a chance to earn a rare badge awarded for creating a tag that is used by 50+ questions[1]

  • This was compounded when - according to the OP, his OTHER 2 tries to create the tag were also rejected. I do not possess the knowledge of how to dig through the data to verify that, or to see the circumstances, except that I know that OTHER people were involved than the user who challenged the tag's first instance - so this is a pattern of events that transcends a single user's one judgement call.

  • Then, to add insult to injury, someone else created that tag and will get the badge that the OP was deprived of.

added 172 characters in body
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DVK-on-Ahch-To
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  • Apologize to the OP for the rash action of deleting a tag without ANY community debate (which would have resulted in people - myself included - being able to present evidence that it's a major character and worth its own tag). A brief comments thread doesn't count, as few people likely saw it.

    UPDATE: One person who was involved (of MANY) - @Null apologized in his answer, which I deeply appreciate and would like to urge the OP to accept that apology, as no damage to OP was intended and it was all done in good faith by @Null, with negative outcome being unanticipated and unforeseen.

    This does not change the poor action of other peoplethe poor action of other people, both the moderator (who should have seeked community consensus before acting on that flag, and some users on this Meta thread who behaved in a hugely unconstructive[2] manner - and no, the fact that OP's wording wasn't anywhere near 100% constructive is NOT A GOOD EXCUSE); as well as as-yet-unknown-details of who did what in the other 2 cases where the user's attempt to create a tag was rejected.

  • Restore the opportunity to get the badge to the user. While a bit drastic edit-wise, it's doable:

    1. delete the current tag, from all quetsions, and let the OP re-create it once it's gone from the database.

    2. As an alternative, ask SE team to change the tag's creator in the back-end database to the OP.

  • Apologize to the OP for the rash action of deleting a tag without ANY community debate (which would have resulted in people - myself included - being able to present evidence that it's a major character and worth its own tag). A brief comments thread doesn't count, as few people likely saw it.

    UPDATE: @Null apologized in his answer, which I deeply appreciate and would like to urge the OP to accept that apology, as no damage to OP was intended and it was all done in good faith by @Null, with negative outcome being unanticipated and unforeseen.

    This does not change the poor action of other people, both the moderator (who should have seeked community consensus before acting on that flag, and some users on this Meta thread who behaved in a hugely unconstructive[2] manner - and no, the fact that OP's wording wasn't anywhere near 100% constructive is NOT A GOOD EXCUSE).

  • Restore the opportunity to get the badge to the user. While a bit drastic edit-wise, it's doable:

    1. delete the current tag, from all quetsions, and let the OP re-create it once it's gone from the database.

    2. As an alternative, ask SE team to change the tag's creator in the back-end database to the OP.

  • Apologize to the OP for the rash action of deleting a tag without ANY community debate (which would have resulted in people - myself included - being able to present evidence that it's a major character and worth its own tag). A brief comments thread doesn't count, as few people likely saw it.

    UPDATE: One person who was involved (of MANY) - @Null apologized in his answer, which I deeply appreciate and would like to urge the OP to accept that apology, as no damage to OP was intended and it was all done in good faith by @Null, with negative outcome being unanticipated and unforeseen.

    This does not change the poor action of other people, both the moderator (who should have seeked community consensus before acting on that flag, and some users on this Meta thread who behaved in a hugely unconstructive[2] manner - and no, the fact that OP's wording wasn't anywhere near 100% constructive is NOT A GOOD EXCUSE); as well as as-yet-unknown-details of who did what in the other 2 cases where the user's attempt to create a tag was rejected.

  • Restore the opportunity to get the badge to the user. While a bit drastic edit-wise, it's doable:

    1. delete the current tag, from all quetsions, and let the OP re-create it once it's gone from the database.

    2. As an alternative, ask SE team to change the tag's creator in the back-end database to the OP.

added 430 characters in body
Source Link
DVK-on-Ahch-To
  • 344.1k
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  • 101

I know everyone likes to hate people who complain of unfair treatementtreatment, but in this case there really was unfair treatment.

  • The user created a plausibly valid tag (on another user's question).

    • By that time it was clear from all the released material that Kylo Ren is a major character. I shall avoid posting 3-page-long bullet list of why, to avoid spoiling people.

    • While there may be valid arguments made on the side of the tag not being valid[3], there are very valid arguments on the side of it being valid, and therefore NOT unanimously and unchallengingly worth-deleting without debate and discussion. This Q&A is not the correct place to settle that argument, but what's important to what happened is the fact that it's a meaningful disagreement on merits, not a unanimous and obvious "junk" tag conclusion.

  • The tag was challenged without knowing this fact, and without checking this fact (e.g. on main site or Meta), and deleted by a moderator without seeking the site consensus on Meta, as is appropriate for tag deletion

    • As per the challenger, the basis of the challenge was 2-fold: (#1) he considered the tag invalid (as per above, I greatly disagree with him on merits of that judgement call, but it's his right to make that judgement call); and (#2) considered it inapplicable to THAT specific question (another judgement call, that I am ambivalent about, I can see valid reasoning to either support or oppose that call on merits, and think it was far more correct than #1).

    • As per comments from moderator, the FORMER basis of the challenge (validity of the tag itself) was the basis for fulfilling the flag. As such, I believe it necessitated a Meta discussion prior to deletion and should have been rejected until such Meta discussion was resolved. (For hypothetical completeness - I may have arrived at the opposite conclusion regarding moderator's action if the reason for the deletion was the second basis of the flag - question content, including tags, is definitely within moderator purview and ordinarily wouldn't need to be Meta-discussed. I may have disagreed with moderator's judgement but NOT his procedure then.)

  • Regardless of the intentions of the action, the practical - if unintended - effect of this action was that the user was deprived of an official, SE-promoted, activity (creating new good tag) - and as a consequence of that:

    • ##user lost a chance to earn a rare badge awarded for creating a tag that is used by 50+ questions[1]
  • This was compounded when - according to the OP, his OTHER 2 tries to create the tag were also rejected. I do not possess the knowledge of how to dig through the data to verify that, or to see the circumstances, except that I know that OTHER people were involved than the user who challenged the tag's first instance - so this is a pattern of events that transcends a single user's one judgement call.

  • Then, to add insult to injury, someone else created that tag and will get the badge that the OP was deprived of.

I know everyone likes to hate people who complain of unfair treatement, but in this case there really was unfair treatment.

  • The user created a plausibly valid tag (on another user's question).

    • By that time it was clear from all the released material that Kylo Ren is a major character. I shall avoid posting 3-page-long bullet list of why, to avoid spoiling people.

    • While there may be valid arguments made on the side of the tag not being valid[3], there are very valid arguments on the side of it being valid, and therefore NOT unanimously and unchallengingly worth-deleting without debate and discussion. This Q&A is not the correct place to settle that argument, but what's important to what happened is the fact that it's a meaningful disagreement on merits, not a unanimous and obvious "junk" tag conclusion.

  • The tag was challenged without knowing this and without checking this fact (e.g. on main site or Meta), and deleted without seeking the site consensus on Meta, as is appropriate for tag deletion

    • As per the challenger, the basis of the challenge was 2-fold: (#1) he considered the tag invalid (as per above, I greatly disagree with him on merits of that judgement call, but it's his right to make that judgement call); and (#2) considered it inapplicable to THAT specific question (another judgement call, that I am ambivalent about, I can see valid reasoning to either support or oppose that call on merits, and think it was far more correct than #1).

    • As per comments from moderator, the FORMER basis of the challenge (validity of the tag itself) was the basis for fulfilling the flag. As such, I believe it necessitated a Meta discussion prior to deletion and should have been rejected until such Meta discussion was resolved. (For hypothetical completeness - I may have arrived at the opposite conclusion regarding moderator's action if the reason for the deletion was the second basis of the flag - question content, including tags, is definitely within moderator purview and ordinarily wouldn't need to be Meta-discussed. I may have disagreed with moderator's judgement but NOT his procedure then.)

  • Regardless of the intentions of the action, the practical - if unintended - effect of this action was that the user was deprived of an official, SE-promoted, activity (creating new good tag) - and as a consequence of that:

    • ##user lost a chance to earn a rare badge awarded for creating a tag that is used by 50+ questions[1]
  • Then, to add insult to injury, someone else created that tag and will get the badge that the OP was deprived of.

I know everyone likes to hate people who complain of unfair treatment, but in this case there really was unfair treatment.

  • The user created a plausibly valid tag (on another user's question).

    • By that time it was clear from all the released material that Kylo Ren is a major character. I shall avoid posting 3-page-long bullet list of why, to avoid spoiling people.

    • While there may be valid arguments made on the side of the tag not being valid[3], there are very valid arguments on the side of it being valid, and therefore NOT unanimously and unchallengingly worth-deleting without debate and discussion. This Q&A is not the correct place to settle that argument, but what's important to what happened is the fact that it's a meaningful disagreement on merits, not a unanimous and obvious "junk" tag conclusion.

  • The tag was challenged without knowing this fact, and without checking this fact (e.g. on main site or Meta), and deleted by a moderator without seeking the site consensus on Meta, as is appropriate for tag deletion

    • As per the challenger, the basis of the challenge was 2-fold: (#1) he considered the tag invalid (as per above, I greatly disagree with him on merits of that judgement call, but it's his right to make that judgement call); and (#2) considered it inapplicable to THAT specific question (another judgement call, that I am ambivalent about, I can see valid reasoning to either support or oppose that call on merits, and think it was far more correct than #1).

    • As per comments from moderator, the FORMER basis of the challenge (validity of the tag itself) was the basis for fulfilling the flag. As such, I believe it necessitated a Meta discussion prior to deletion and should have been rejected until such Meta discussion was resolved. (For hypothetical completeness - I may have arrived at the opposite conclusion regarding moderator's action if the reason for the deletion was the second basis of the flag - question content, including tags, is definitely within moderator purview and ordinarily wouldn't need to be Meta-discussed. I may have disagreed with moderator's judgement but NOT his procedure then.)

  • Regardless of the intentions of the action, the practical - if unintended - effect of this action was that the user was deprived of an official, SE-promoted, activity (creating new good tag) - and as a consequence of that:

    • ##user lost a chance to earn a rare badge awarded for creating a tag that is used by 50+ questions[1]
  • This was compounded when - according to the OP, his OTHER 2 tries to create the tag were also rejected. I do not possess the knowledge of how to dig through the data to verify that, or to see the circumstances, except that I know that OTHER people were involved than the user who challenged the tag's first instance - so this is a pattern of events that transcends a single user's one judgement call.

  • Then, to add insult to injury, someone else created that tag and will get the badge that the OP was deprived of.

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DVK-on-Ahch-To
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DVK-on-Ahch-To
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DVK-on-Ahch-To
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DVK-on-Ahch-To
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DVK-on-Ahch-To
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DVK-on-Ahch-To
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DVK-on-Ahch-To
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